I’ve been doing a lot of soul searching lately. Sometimes I feel like I’m trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I admit, I’m feeling at a loss as to what to do.
It’s not a secret that Morgan is a challenging dog. At first, I thought that it was just part of her being a German Shepherd. I wasn’t terribly familiar with the breed, but I can tell you that it was obvious from the very beginning that Morgan was very different from the Greyhounds. She loved them, but they mystified her. She decided they were her flock and she worked to protect them. I can still remember how agitated she got the night Lilac stepped on Bunny which resulted in Bunny snapping on her nose and her breaking a toenail at the same time. Lilac did not want to cooperate with our attempts to patch her up, and Morgan was very concerned that we were doing something to Lilac that we shouldn’t be.
I am not certain what she would do if someone broke into our house while we were gone, but I have a strong instinct that if we were home that she would be very aggressive with an intruder. Sometimes she isn’t even crazy about people coming in that we say are alright. She is protection in overdrive.
I never doubt that her heart is in the right place, it’s her mind that I wonder about. There have been a pattern of incidents that have happened that I haven’t talked about, but all of it is painting a picture for us. The first thing that was a red flag happened at the end of last summer or beginning of fall.
We went hiking at Starved Rock, which is one of our favorite places. It was a nicer than usual day and we decided to walk around the visitor center a little and get a few pictures of Bunny and Morgan there. That is not something that would normally be a problem. On this day, it was incredibly busy there, though, because of the nice weather. However, as we were on our way out, we encountered a woman who became extremely excited when she saw Mo. I’m sure most of you have seen a little girl begin screaming when she gets excited about something she really likes. Imagine a grown woman with three daughters doing that. Even her friend who was with her chastised her for the way she carried on. Her response was “I’m just excited, okay!” They asked if they could pet the dogs, and from my position behind them, it felt like watching a scene in The Matrix where everything moves in slow motion. I tried to move ahead with Bunny to allow them to pet her, because I could see that Morgan was pretty agitated, but my husband, standing in front of her, couldn’t see her body language and he replied, “Sure!”
The next thing I knew, this girl (who looked around nine years old) was right in Morgan’s face, and Morgan snapped. She bumped the girl’s face with her snout and scared the girl pretty badly, not to mention me. The girl wasn’t hurt, and if Morgan intended to hurt her, she would have done serious, serious damage. I’m not sure how I managed to walk back to the van because my legs felt like jelly. It was a warning for us and we began taking her out in high traffic areas like that a lot less. I know a lot of people will say that the woman and girl were wrong to treat her the way they did, and that’s true, but Morgan was still wrong, too, and we have expectations for all our dogs in regards to their behavior. I don’t want my dogs to ruin the fun of places like Starved Rock for all dogs.
We did a lot of work with her and became a lot more vigilant. On our New Year’s hike, we ran into a couple with two children, and Bunny made the greetings while Morgan watched from a distance. We politely told them that she isn’t fond of strangers and she did okay with that.
Then we had the incident with the baby while we were babysitting. Morgan literally lost her mind. I’ve never seen her become so unhinged. An hour after the baby went to bed, she jumped on me and left some nasty bruises and scratches as she tried to take in the scent of the baby. This behavior was over the top, even for Morgan. She couldn’t listen to anything we said. It really was like seeing her have some kind of mental breakdown, and it left bruises on my heart.
The latest straw, however, is that she has been involved in two incidents with her pack mates in the last two and a half weeks. We were at the dog park one day at the end of my break because Morgan and Küster really needed to burn off some steam and the black tornado really has never had a chance to play in the snow. Last year, be barely got any all winter, so when we got a little this year, we took them over to play a little, and Bunny went as well. Küster can be a punk sometimes and he was really being a bratty little brother. I don’t blame Mo for telling him off. However, neither one of them likes to back down, and to our surprise, they had a fight there at the dog park. My husband ended up getting bitten by Küster, but neither of the dogs was hurt. Bunny pretended she didn’t know either of them on the way home.
Thursday night, Morgan wouldn’t leave Bunny alone and finally, Bunny gave her a mean bark. The next thing we knew, Morgan was going after her, very aggressively, and Bunny didn’t back down. My husband grabbed her and put her in the crate, where she had to spend the night because she was just too amped up and wouldn’t quit posturing. It’s frightening and upsetting.
I’m at a loss as to what to do for her. She loves us deeply, and yet, I feel like we are dealing with a multiple personality. There’s the sweet Morgan that melts my heart and the crazy Morgan who acts irrationally. At times, I’m not even sure if she is in control of what she’s doing. When she gets into one of her moods, she has a total one track mind and nothing deters her. Redirecting doesn’t work, giving her something else to do doesn’t work, calling on familiar behaviors doesn’t focus her and even correction really doesn’t do the trick.
What I do know is that I love her deeply, and I want to find something that works for her and for all of us. We may explore better living through chemistry. Another part of me wonders if we are just not the right people for her. Maybe she would be happier as an only dog. I can’t imagine that she enjoys being this high strung, either. I’m also aware that we have a responsibility to protect the other dogs in our home. I can’t let her get away with hurting them, hurting us or hurting someone else. I want to find a solution that will allow her to be a happy dog that we can all live with.
I’m sorry that this post wasn’t the usual light-hearted fare that we usually offer, and that this post is so long, but my hope is that we can find some answers. If anybody reading this has ideas to offer, I am happy to hear them. I’m also hoping to explain a bit about why Morgan isn’t always out and about with us. I know some of her fans feel that she isn’t represented enough here on the blog, but I have really been struggling with this for a while. We are trying to find a balance that works for all of us, and maybe share some things that work and don’t work along the way.
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That is a complicated situation indeed. I wish I had clues to help because I understand how it bothers you. It is worrying that you and your husband can’t find the solution, despite your skills and love fr the dogs…
Time to find a good canine behaviorist and see if they can help you. I know Patricia McConnell has a website at http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/ and she used to answer questions on her blog. You can contact her and see what she might suggest.
Is Morgan spayed? If she is not, that might be part of it.
Jo
How much exercise does Morgan get? Does Mr. Taleteller work with her alone? I wonder if she needs a job? Tracking? Herding? She’s so lovely, but it can be scary when the pack is out of control. Did I mention that we had two male rottweilers who were litter mates?? OY! From about 11/2 to age 3 I walked them each separately with a backpack with weight in it for about 45 minutes a day. Oh and I had another rottie – princess Allie – who basically said they were my problem…the exercise helped a lot, but oh, I feel your pain. I’ve been wanting to rescue another rottie, but frankly, Bart and Ruby are so easy and good and happy and sweet that I don’t want to mess with the pack dynamic. Rather long winded. I hope it was interesting!! Maybe Morgan needs to go to boot camp at KB’s and have to run up mountains and stuff!! I’ll be curious what others have to say. Thanks for talking about this stuff!
Oh Mo…Sounds like you’re having a rough go of it. Have you considered a work up at the vet? Sometimes pain or other illnessess will cause a dog to unexpectedly act out and that could explain why it comes and goes.
No matter what the issue is, your love for Morgan shines through in every word and I know you’ll do whatever you can to help her. We’re here to listen and offer our support. No one’s dog is perfect. It’s all about figuring out what will work best.
Yeah a good behaviourist and perhaps some drugs to help her self-moderate? It really does not sound like normal behaviour and it sounds like she might need to be medicated before you can do any behaviour modification. Like people, some dogs just don’t have regular brains. I would also consider getting a muzzle for her.
My heart breaks for you having to deal with this. I don’t have any advice as I’m a newbie dog owner. I know you will do your best for Mo. There is no doubt about your love for her. I am very interested to follow your journey because I plan to be a dog owner for the rest of my life, and I know you are not alone with this concern. I will be checking back because I’m interested in what everyone else has to say.
Your case with Mo is rather difficult however is far from being rare. Agression from pets happens for different reasons. Mostly because of lack of correct teaching and training. Agression of female dogs is more dangerous than of male dogs. Very often it is provoqued by the fact that the dog never had pappies. With ages such dogs become agressive and jealous. The only way out is to keep such dog under control and never leave with other dogs. If the dog is agressive because of her domunant nature srict teaching and training can help. The third case – most dramatic – some mental irregularities. Better to know if her parents were fully healthy. If there is something with her mind, it’s too dangerous to have such a dog. Hope everything will be OK for you and your dogs
I feel for you. This is a worrying situation, complicated by 3 other dogs in the household. It sounds like Mo’s outbreaks are getting more frequent and serious. I wish I had answers but none comes to mind, other than we noticed in our neighbourhood that a lot of the girl dogs got angsty around 2 years old when they were maturing. But I think Mo is already a mature dog? They all settled down eventually as well. Rufus didn’t particularly like meeting other dogs or people when he was younger and could be snappy. We just avoided putting him in those situations for many years until he grew older and calmed down. Like a couple of other people mentioned, a dog behaviourist might be helpful. A muzzle would be dreadful but if there are kiddies around…
Good luck with finding some answers!
I wonder if Morgan had a DAP collar on if it would calm her. I’ve usefd the DAP Spray and plug-in for Song and it calmed her. Have also used it a couple of times for Polly and it seems to calm her as well.
Also wonder if any kind of blood tests might show something not quiet right, or if she is in pain for some reason, as I’ve heard of dogs becoming more agitated and even snappy because of pain or a chemical inbalance.
I hope you can sot Morgan out. She really is a beautiful girl.
Oh Carrie, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I can remember from past experience what it is like to live with a dog that seemed to have a split personality. It’s not fun and definitely stressful on the whole household. I only had the one dog at the time so I didn’t have the added worry of another dog getting injured, although it can make you feel isolated as you are always hoping no one ever comes to the house, or you don’t meet anyone the dog deems “strange” on your walks. I’m sure you will figure out what is best for Morgan.
This is so tough. We had a Cocker Spaniel from the time she was a puppy until she died at 15 years. She definitely had problems like this. She was much smaller, of course, so she was easier to handle. I know that many people that we were crazy for keeping her, but we loved her. We didn’t have other pets and we kept her away from other people. We wouldn’t have been able to keep her if we had children.
Morgan definitely needs to get some kind of help. Maybe your vet can offer some suggestions It is definitely scaring that she is going after the other dogs. She may need to be re-homed which I know will break your hearts, but you also need to protect the rest of your pack.
Hugs to you. I can only imagine the stress you are feeling over this.
I am so glad you shared because you are hardly alone in dealing with situations that change over time. I’ll start by saying that Morgan is lucky to have such a concerns and observant owner. I don’t have any magical solutions to offer. I know that Mango would sometimes get dead eyes and slip his gears. In hindsight, I wonder if it was related to his seizures.
People are huge triggers and keeping her away from strangers for a bit might be in order. The most worrisome thing to me is her overreacting to her pack mates. Especially when it seems so unpredictable.
Your own stress must be extreme and my heart goes out to you for that. I agree that a thorough vet check is in order. Who knows if she has eye, ear, or physical issues that are making her act out? Please keep us posted.
Mango Momma
OH I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this.
I can recommend a really good book ~
http://www.amazon.com/Well-Adjusted-Dog-Lifelong-Happiness-BestFriend/dp/B0057DA9A6/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358601187&sr=1-2
I keep it on my ereader, and refer to it all the time.
Also, my veterinary behaviorist has given me so much help. She gives me things to work on, as well as medication for Oreo.
Here is a list of board certified behaviorists. They aren’t cheap, but they really know their stuff.
http://www.dacvb.org/resources/find/
If none are near you, Tufts U offers consultations via questionaires and such:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/behavior/petfax.shtml
Living with animals sure isn’t easy.
It seems to have to do with her believing she is alpha and making incorrect actions in that role. And of course the others may not agree with her view. Our grey Miura and our other grey Zonda can’t be walked together because if they see something like a squirrel Miura goes crazy barking and Zonda tries to make her stop and blood has been drawn. They must be muzzled in the yard because play gets too rough and sometimes unfriendly. They both believe they are more qualified to make pack decisions. In the house they are fine. This role confusion came about after a neighbors unleashed dogs approached us aggressively while I was walking our 3 (#3 is never a problem). Miura went into protection overdrive. I was scared by the impending dog fight, but luckily the jerk heard me screaming at his dogs to get away and got them. I now carry mace on all walks, and sadly Miura has never trusted other dogs or kids approaching us since that day. The dad walks her and is firm about people leaving her alone. She used to love to be pet on walks but now her reaction is distrust. Was their some incident that can be traced back to her behavior starting? I agree a very good behaviorist is a good choice. I feel your pain at wanting all your dogs to be balanced and happy.
It seems Mo is a handful but she is so lucky to have you and Mr. Taleteller as her mom and dad who love her deeply and are willing to help her. I’m so sorry that I don’t have any clues on how to help Mo but I do remember our rottie Laura on and off wasn’t really herself when she was about two to three years old. I guess it was because she didn’t have enough exercise or we didn’t wear her out enough. However, she calmed down a lot when she was more mature and she became so sweet and tolerant to everyone, either people or other dogs when she was much older. I don’t know whether Mo has the same problem or not but I do hope you can find your solutions soon.
We love Mo and we hope she gets the help that she needs.
I’m so sorry to hear this about Morgan. I don’t have any great words of wisdom, but like the others I agree that a vet check and working with a behaviorist are the best places to start. I will say that when we had shepherds even though they would get along fine most of the time they could still get into big fights on occasion. It is never easy to break up a tussle between two 75 lb. dogs and most of the time I think their plush coats kept them from seriously hurting each other, but the greyhounds would be more vulnerable in a fight with Morgan.
Morgan is such a beautiful girl. I hope you can find a solution that makes all of you happy.
Cindy
I would talk to your vet first, it could be a medical issue. Our last Great Dane started having sudden mood swings, he attacked puppy Sam pretty severely, and started going after the horses. We took him to the vet for a thorough exam, and after all the testing found out he had an aggressive brain tumor. It wasn’t him, it was the pressure on his head and the pain he was feeling. I’m not saying this is Morgan’s problem, but there might be a reason.
Having said that, our Monty is a loose cannon on most days. We have found that if I am walking him alone, I just need to tell people “no” attention what-so-ever, even if I come across as the evil dog owner. Sometimes, if it is children, I let Sam greet them first and have Monty do a series of down-stay-sit with a lot of praise. Sam is our ambassador – I can watch him and see how the children react with him. If the children look like they can remain calm and Monty does his exercises, I explain to them that Monty needs training and they can help me. I let them approach him one at a time and if Monty stays down, they can pet him. The children take this as a huge honor. I find I have more problems with the parents – go figure…
We’ve made huge strides with Monty in public.
Don’t give up on Morgan yet. She is a good dog. I would also talk to a Shepherd breeder for advice. We are thinking of you!
Sam’s Mom, Christine
I think all the suggestions: a thorough vet visit with perhaps a thyroid test included, working with a QUALIFIED behvaiorist and possibly medication are probably the best ones at this point. I’m sorry this is where you are, but it happens. Just like people, sometimes dogs have problems that are not really traceable. Sometimes, there is something in their genetics too. Have you looked into family history to see if there are others in her lineage who had similiar issues or traits.
I do agree, it nothing seems to work–it’s not way you herm you and your other dgs to live. I hope you all can get to the bottom of it and resolve it. Please keep up posted.
Fixing typo: I do agree, if nothing seems to work–this is no way for her, you and your other dogs to live. I hope you all can get to the bottom of it and resolve it. Please keep up posted.
Oh man, I am so sorry to hear you’re going through this with Morgan. Believe me, I DO know how upsetting it is and I understand the broken heart as well.
Folks up-thread have asked some good questions and I’d like to ask some as well. First and foremost being, when was the last time Morgan had a good work-up at the vet? Physical injury, pain or illness can make a dog behave very differently than they usually do.
How old is Morgan now? Age also changes a dog’s tolerance and temperament in ways we might not see coming. Mild-mannered beasts can get a little more cranky where hyper dingbats like Bella may actually mellow with age.
My experience with Dr. Dodman and Bella’s aggression issues were summarized into 4 categories (although we never had other dogs in the house so I don’t know how that will affect things for you) but we were told to focus on: nutrition, exercise, communication and finally, as you know, medication. (We had already been through all the holistic methods to help calm her but if you want ideas of less-invasive things to try and you think this is related to anxiety, I can probably give you some ideas.)
Changes to nutrition and exercise may be all you need to address but if you have a good behaviorist (and by good I mean accredited/degreed as opposed to someone who just calls themselves one) available, I would definitely recommend enlisting their help. But I would start with your vet to rule out pain or illness and while you’re there you can ask them for recommendations about behaviorists.
Again, I’m so sorry. Morgan is lucky to have such a committed family caring for her. If you ever have any questions or just want to kvetch, please feel free to drop me an email. I don’t claim to have any answers but I certainly understand the emotional impact of dealing with a wonderful dog who sometimes just seems to get unhinged. (Sorry for writing a book in your comments…)
Oh, I’m so sorry to hear about all of this. The pressure and fear you feel is awful. With all my heart, I hope that a pet behaviorist or a vet can help you . Since you have worked so hard with Morgan in the past I’m leaning toward a medical answer to her problems. However, I suspect that youve already spoken to Morgan’s doc. Also with tiny Goldilocks to consider you absolutely cannot be too careful. All that said, if worse comes to worse and you have to give her up, you can rest assured that you’ve done your level best for Morgan. Good luck, my friend, Loy
I’m so sorry for the disharmony in your house. I understand why you are so worried.
You’ve gotten some good advice. And I would agree with talking to a really good behaviorist who can help you evaluate what’s going on and the best way to help Morgan.
I’ve written over the years about the problems we had with litter mates Agatha and Christie. They had bloody battles throughout their lives. I didn’t know enough to seek the right kind of help. But I also wonder if my desire to keep the family together was more about my self image and not showing the proper care for my dogs. I guess I’ll never know for sure.
As much as your online friends want to help you, you really need someone nearby who can observe what’s going on and give you trustworthy advice.
Whatever you decide is best for Morgan and your family, you’ll get lots of support here. But you deserve to have someone at your side who is smart and can help you make smart choices.
I’ll be thinking about you all. Good luck.
I would begin by taking her to a canine behaviorist, they cat h on to behavior cues you are missing.
I wish I had something to offer as a solution. Many before me seem to have some good suggestions. I hope a soultion can be found and everyone will be happy. Keeping you all in my prayers.
Blessings,
Goose
That was a doozie of a post. Each of our guys has their own personality quirks, but we’ve never had to deal with something this serious. We do live in the age of living better thru chemistry. When we got kitty prozac for Isabel, she seemed much more relaxed and happy. The thought of giving her up totally sucks, but sometimes a change that drastic is needed. For the greyhounds like that, we usually like to send them to retired people who are home a lot and don’t have any children or other animals in the house.
Oh, I’m sorry to hear this and I feel your pain to some extent. Not exactly the same scenarios, but similar. I had major issues with the boys a few years ago and I wrote about them on the blog. They were fighting a lot, bad fights. I got my arm bit pretty bad one time trying to break them up. Things got pretty bad to the extent that I didn’t want them to be in the same room together. I received a lot of advice from other people. I got really good at learning to watch for body language and then to correct it by trying to redirect their focus. We also used NILF and of course my handy dandy fog horn when things got interesting. I wish I had some solid advice for you, but I’m not that great at all this training stuff.:)
Oh goodness! I can understand what you are going through because Lily seems to be a lot like Morgan, only in a pug body. I find that Lily is very people possessive and sometimes, her gears slip and like you said, you cannot deter the behavior no matter what you try. Please keep me posted as I want to see what you do with Morgan to see if it will help with Lily. Lily does respond well to exercise so far…if I can poop her out, she usually does not react as much…but even then, there are times…So for know, just breathe in and out, love Morgan, and hopefully through active searching you can find answers. I definently think the blood workup and physical exam with a veternarian is a first step. Hopefully, a veternarian can point you in the right direction.
Much Love!!
What a difficult situation. Sounds like it might be a good time to invite a behaviorist in to evaluate the situation, and see if they can see something that you, being in the middle of it, can’t.
I was going to comment and offer some ideas, but the comments you have received so far have offered so many excellent ideas to help you deal with Morgan’s issues. It can be scary, and heartbreaking, and dangerous sometimes, and of course you need to find solutions that will work for Morgan and your family. Thank you expressing your feelings so eloquently. One way or another, you will arrive at some resolution. Please keep us posted on Morgan’s and your progress.
I’m so sorry to hear this! I have watched my parents go through the same thing with their 2 pits – the older pit is an absolute angel. The younger pit is too territorial to play with other dogs without growling or fighting, but she absolutely loves people. It has caused a lot of heartache in our family, but my parents can’t bear to give the younger one away. She is their baby.
Oh Carrie! I was so sad to read your post. I can imagine how worried you must be. But I can see that people are coming up with loads of suggestions. Contacts I have here in the middle of England wouldn’t be much use to you – but I do hope that by talking about the issues you are having you will get some help to re-balance the family.
I think it was a very brave and honest blog post to write and I admire you for it.
Hope there is a happy ending very soon – or at least the beginning of a happy ending.
Lots of love from Elaine
Better living thru chemistry sounds like it might be a plan. It’s really tough when a dog acts up even though you are doing everything “right”. Clomicalm helped Jersey a lot with her morning “freak outs”. We narrowed down the cause to the door hinges making cracking noises in the morning sun. Go figure out that one…
One othere thought…Allie really mellowed when we got her spayed…
Carrie, my heart is breaking for you as well. I agree with everyone else, to get her checked out by the vet to see if anything is ok. It might be something as simple as a UTI. If all checks out ok head to a behaviorlist. I know someone who does training and difficult dogs are her speciality. I am sure that she would be willing to talk to you if you wanted to. Just let me know your thoughts and I can give you her info if you would like.
I hope things get better!
I feel so bad for you. Occasionally Dakota doesn’t do well with children and we have to keep him onleash until we are certain as to how he is going to respond.
I wish I had more experience to help you, are there any professionals that you could contact who may have an answer?
many of the dog bloggers are quite experienced and knowledgeable and I am hoping that someone can help you to help Morgan
((((hugs)))
I feel so bad for you guys and Morgan. I had some suggestions but I’m late to the party and it looks like they’ve been suggested. I hope you find what works for Morgan.
I’m certainly not experienced enough to do anything other than share the good advice we’ve received from experts regarding Walker’s idiopathic behavior. Never Say Never Greyhounds had good results from the Tufts University Veterinary Clinic behaviorists. (Sara, Oreo and Chewy provide the link to the Tufts website above.) We are about to consult with them using fax, e-mail, providing them with extensive written reports of his behavior, as well as videos.
As I completed the paperwork, I found that many of the questions asked dealt with issues of aggression. They seem to have lots of experience mitigating this problem.
They may recommend alternative training strategies and or medication – and you continue to work with them until the problem is resolved. The cost for the services of this behavioral consultation is less than $300.
I hope something you learn is helpful. My heart is breaking for you and Morgan. Please keep us posted.
I’m very sorry to hear this. The impression I’ve had reading your posts is that Morgan is a handful, and sometimes overprotective but that you have it all under control – that she is more Mr T’s dog and that he manages her. Could this be an issue which is arising as Kuster grows to adolescence and adulthood and is challenging her as family protector and Mr T’s favourite? I mean, clearly Kuster must work extremely closely with Mr T, and must often go out alone with him. I wonder if Morgan’s nose has been put a little out of joint and she’s overcompensating?
However. The person who said you really need someone on the spot to observe was absolutely right and there’s not much online friends can do to help other than offer suggestions as to things you might not have considered
With that in mind, I’m going to say that one of the first things that came to mind was ‘full vet work up including thyroid test’ because I’ve now heard of several dogs who have become unpredictable and aggressive as a result of low thyroid.
And yes, you need a good canine behaviourist!
This is a very serious and no doubt tense and emotional situation for you all. You’ve received many excellent suggestions. I’d definitely get Morgan’s health checked out. I am wondering if there is a GSD equivalent of the Greytalk forum where you could ask for help? I’m sure this isn’t a breed specific problem but perhaps it would be helpful to know how other GSD owners have handled it and what has worked for them? Good luck.
It looks like you’ve received a lot of good ideas and advice. A good behaviorist is really helpful, but sometimes they are hard to find. After a couple of incidents where Sage was bullied, she showed some fear aggression with certain other dogs and we saw a behaviorist. We’ve worked through her issues and I know you will find a good balance with Morgan. It takes time, but you are so good with your dogs that I feel confident things will work out with time.
Very sorry you are going through this!
Not a lot of advice but just a hug and I hope you can sort things out so you can all relax and be happy again.
Maybe she would prefer to be a lone dog…sometimes it can be so hard to figure out what they are thinking.
My heart goes out to you and I am so sorry you have been struggling with Morgan’s behaviour. It’s definitely frightening, to say the least, when you are concerned you won’t be able to stop her from hurting others or herself. I don’t have much to add that hasn’t been said by others but I had to let you know how much I appreciated your honesty in sharing your experiences. It’s not easy to admit your dog is having trouble, especially with something so serious. You are not alone in your worries and Morgan is not a bad dog.
I am sure you have done everything I would have done already and so while I wish I could offer some helpful advice, I feel at a loss. All I can suggest is ruling out potential medical problems and then perhaps contacting a professional trainer or behaviorist who might be able to provide some practical assistance. I have complete faith you will come to a solution that works for you and your family, all of your family.
This just really sucks for all of you.
HI, this post breaks my heart. I agree with others as a blood work up and examine may be in order. Are you on facebook? I found a German Shepherd group on there that helps with various issues of GSD behavior issues–it’s called German Shepherd Nation. tonight they have a trainer from German Shepherd Kennels on there to answer questions. 6 EST
You have gotten some great advice. I read through several of the comments and all are good suggestions. I see that someone mentioned having her thyroid checked–I would definitely rule out something medically. Sometimes lyme or other tick-borne diseases can cause neurological changes such as seizures, aggression, and other behavior changes in dogs–It may be worth finding out about if you’ve not already.
I will also tell you that I know exactly how you are feeling. I used to foster the ‘problem children’ for the rescue, and know that when the things that happen as they have been with Morgan, it can be a lonely and frustrating time. In fact, our girl Sheba is one of those ‘problem children.’ She can’t be around kids, and I found that out the hard way when she also snapped at a young girl, bruising her face. It was a heart-wrenching and very stressful time. But I really admire you for wanting to work through this and find the solution and will hope that you do. Let us know, and remember that you have our support with whatever your decisions are made to keep Morgan safe.
I’ve been thinking about your post all day, since I read it this morning. I’m so sorry that you’re having this tough time with Morgan. I’ll have to be brief here because we have a house guest… but what you’re describing sounds like the “classic” form of a “reactive” dog. I’ve been reading tons about it and talking with my expert trainer about it because it’s really just another form of what Shyla does in stressful situation. Shyla lies down paralyzed with fear, unable to think or act. Most dogs do what Morgan does, which is lash out.
Our goal with Shyla (and all my reading confirms this would be true for Morgan too) is to bring her back to a “thinking state” when she gets into those scary situations. Often, it means that we move away from whatever is scaring her (if she’s capable of walking). When we are at a distance that she is “under threshold”, we let her observe the scary thing and reward good reactions.
It’s a ton of work, and it’s work that you’d need help with from an expert. My trainer works with dogs like Morgan, using many of the same techniques as with Shyla. The main technique that we’re using is called “BAT” (Behavioral Adjustment Therapy – there’s a good book and DVD about it) but we’re combining it with classical conditioning and operent training as well.
The big problem is, if you don’t already love a dog like Morgan or like Shyla, it’s daunting to consider taking on the task of controlling their environment (to avoid their “triggers” until they’ve been through the program) and doing the training that’s needed to help them. That was part of what was so hard for me with Shyla – I didn’t have the foundation of a strong bond when I was suddenly faced with a very dysfunctional dog. Consequently, I fear that it would be hard to find a new and good home for Morgan. You already love her, which is important.
I’ll spare you any more details because I don’t know where you are in your thinking. Feel free to email me, and we can “talk” some more if you wish.
I can’t tell you how sorry I am that you’re dealing with this. Morgan seems like a sweetie at heart, who may respond really well to the work of an expert trainer (and I do mean “expert”). Take care.
That’s rough. Perhaps it’s time to get professional input? Has she had a thorough vet check? Perhaps there’s something going on?
I can’t claim to be a behaviourist, but I am taking behaviour modification classes right now (After years of amateur interest) Realistically, what is happening was bound to happen. Mo is simply escalating her current behavioural patterns to continue to get what she wants. Think of it this way, Mo does something, there is a reward, Mo continues to do the behaviour. If someone pushes against the thing she is doing, she is going to try harder to do it to get her reward.
Mo follows Bunny – Bunny allows it because Bunny is sweet and caring – Mo continues to follow Bunny, because guarding Bunny is self-rewarding to Mo.
In the incident you described, Mo followed Bunny, but Bunny was already agitated. She pushed back because she wanted her space, and Mo didn’t like that. Bunny was breaking her behaviour chain and not giving her what she wanted. Mo escalated the behaviour of following Bunny, and Bunny escalated her pushing back. Likely it was a series in infinitesimal steps that happened too fast for you guys to comprehend. The escalation reached a peak where they fought and you guys stepped in, but Mo STILL hadn’t gotten her reward, so she continued to push her behaviour.
People incorrectly label an animal wanting something as “dominance”. In reality, Mo is used to everything fitting her specific behaviour patterns. I don’t live with her, but it may be a number of things. This could be learned behaviour. It could be a breed trait. It could be an ingrained temperament pattern (A “dominant” or type-A or aggressive personality) It could, indeed, be a mental imbalance. Some herding breeds can become obsessive about their desires. Imagine a person with OCD being prevented from completing their compulsions.
To be quite honest, you should take her to the vet to rule out medical. If it isn’t medical, any of the other options will require strict monitoring and control, or perhaps rehoming her. But she may continue to escalate her behaviours and has already indicated that she doesn’t consider humans exempt from her pattern. Mo may require a very, very dedicated set of humans to control her and keep others, and herself, safe.
It made me very sad to read this post. I hope that everything works out for you guys =(
I think this is quite insightful and interesting information. Thank you.
I don’t think we can add anything useful – Mum has had Greyhounds for the last 11 years! I was going to say talk to Leslie@ bringing Up Bella but I see she has already commented. Mo is a lovely dog and whilst she is obviously a handful, at least she lives with responsible people who love her and want to help. It could be a lot lot worse. Deccy x
That is a very challenging and heart wrenching situation. I am sorry you are all going through this and have been for a while. Sending lots of pawsitive thoughts your way that a solution that keeps you all together and brings harmony back to your home is found and found soon.
Hugs and Wags,
Roo and Mom
Oh Carrie, my heart aches for you all. It is never easy having a dog that has ‘challenges’ such as Morgan and having been in your shoes some time ago, I know how much it hurts. It may be that Morgan just needs an environment with less going on…being an only dog might help her anxiety. But supplements or meds might also help too – certainly worth exploring. I wish I had a better answer for you all. Morgan is very lucky to have you both working so hard to find her some peace!!
Check Matt’s FB for my response.
Oh Carrie. I am so sorry. I cannot imagine how you feel.
I don’t have a lot of advice because I have never had to deal with a situation like this before. However, I do have a friend who has dealt with a very similar situation. Her Border Collie mix started off an awesome dog. He got along with their English Spaniel (Clover)and they were the best of friends. Over time, he started to develop some neuroses, including fear of fireworks, then fear of the dark, fear of walks and then aggression towards her best buddy, Clover. It finally culminated into a dog fight that left my friend’s hand so damaged she needed 100 stitches and surgery. She made the difficult decision to put Lito down. It was heartbreaking.
I’m not saying you should do the same. But, you are right to be concerned. Have you considered taking her to a veterinary behaviorist? They are vets who specialize in both medical and behavioral issues. I had a friend who did this and said it was worth it.
I just hate that you guys are going through this. I am so sorry.
We are dealing with a similar situation. You obviously care deeply for Morgan and it sounds like you are on the right track. Keep up the hard work. You’re not alone in caring for a different dog.
Oh gosh what a tough situation this is…When I rescued a GSD, my beloved Cecil Marie, we had an ‘interesting’ adjustment period…I was used to easy-going Labradors and Cecil was so very different…She had inexplicable fears that resulted in some situations such as you have faced…I was llucky though…She idolized my lab Murphy and over time modeled her behavior on Murph’s (to the extent that she taught herself to retrieve ducks to hand for AKC Hunt Tests)…It took about two years for her to begin to mellow out…she always remained “vigilant” but her behaviors became predictable enough to avert problem situations…I wish you the best of luck in finding something that will work for your situation
I’m sorry you are going through this ;( It’s very scary when you feel like you can’t control their behavior. I hope you find someone that can help you sort things out!!
You have gotten some great advice on here, and I hope the support has helped you as well as the advice. I can sense how difficult that was for you to write, and I think it’s great that you did. I don’t have a lot to add, but just wanted to lend my support also. I wrote in the past about fights in our household, I know how difficult it can be. In our case, it hasn’t really come down to just one dog being the issue, they all have their moments. But luckily for us, the episodes are not too often, only one trip to the vet, and a pretty bruised wrist for me. We have been able to control their outbreaks by banging pans together…..seems simplistic, but all the dogs hate loud noises so that works for us so far (I’m not suggesting it could be that simple for you, it probably won’t be). I dread this time of year, because we don’t get outside as much, and that is when they will start to act up. You are so great with getting your dogs out hiking and such, and I think that type of exercise must help a lot. So maybe you just need to add a little more of something else to that. I don’t prefer to give my dogs medications, if I don’t have to, but sometimes that is the only answer and it is the best thing to do. If you have a good vet that you trust, that can help a lot. I hope you will feel like you can give us updates sometimes, because we are all very concerned and understand your pain.
I am so sorry to read this post. Sadly, I can relate. You have gotten a lot of good suggestions on possible ways to make it work for you to keep Morgan as part of your family. If, however, you find that they don’t work, I just wanted to provide some support around the thought that you presented, that Morgan might do better as an only dog. Nearly two months ago I had to come to that difficult decision myself about one of my Greyhounds. Greyson was at least 98% of the time the most gentle, calm, loving dog I had ever met, who lived to be in my presence and tried to attach himself to my hip as much as possible. The majority of the rest of the time he was still loving and sweet, but seemed to not know his power and could be a little aggressive in his overly-friendliness. And then, there was an even smaller, very infrequent amount of time when he was unpredictable, uncontrollable, and frankly very scary. I had adopted him from my vet, who treats and finds homes for a number of dogs from the local racetrack, and when I discussed the most recent incident with him, he was very quick to tell me it wasn’t anything I had done wrong, yet it also wasn’t likely anything I would be able to fix. Greyson just needed to be with someone who could assert their authority in every situation. While most of the time I could, there were just a few situations we couldn’t get past. He assured me he could find someone else to give Greyson a good home and that no harm would come to him, which went a long way toward helping me accept the decision to give him up for re-homing after loving him as part of my family for nearly two years. I have had to make the decision about when to euthanize 3 other Greys when old age and illness made present and future health and happiness no longer possible. This decision was just as hard or, if possible even harder, but I do believe I made the right one. I just wanted to let you know that even though I have every confidence that you and Mr. Taleteller will do all you can to find a way to modify Morgan’s behavior, if you just can’t make it work and do have to consider finding another home for her, know that while it won’t be easy, it will be the right thing to do for her and that you will be supported by the community you have built by sharing your lives, your joys and your sorrows through your wonderful blog.
That is a very tough situation. I have no good suggestions other than the possibility of working with a professional who is experienced with dog aggression. You hadn’t mentioned whether you’d tried that or not. I haven’t read all the comments but I’m sure someone has suggested it somewhere in here. Whatever the outcome we’re pulling for you all.
Veronica, Blue and Bettina
From just reading your post, I didn’t have time to read all the comments, I would suggest a veterinary behaviorist. I took my dog to one last month and we are now working with a plan and some medication.
I do see a difference in her. It’s not something that happens over night and it is a lot of work. I also don’t think she will ever be completely normal, but it’s nice to see her feeling more like a normal dog.
She was diagnosed with a generalized anxiety disorder and she displayed aggressive behavior and other REALLY weird behavior.
I sympathize with you – it’s not fun and it’s stressful for the humans too.
Oh Carrie, I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I remember your previous post about the woman at the park, but thought that was an isolated incident. I’m trying to remember how old Morgan is, and I can’t seem to come up with it. Regardless, it seems this behavior has gotten serious pretty quickly, and I think having her thyroid tested would be a good place to start. Ty has been on a thyroid replacement for several years, and I can now tell when his dosage needs to be adjusted just because he starts to get more crabby.
If that’s not the issue, I think putting her on a medication that helps relax and stabilize her is a good idea. I also wonder if it’s possible that having a maturing male Shepherd in the house (in tact, right?) is making her more agressive toward Bunny and Blue – the other females. The breakdown over the “human puppy” could also be related to that. I’m just guessing. I’m sure a behaviorist would be able to provide much better analysis. Good luck, you guys. I’ll be thinking of you all.
Oh, I’m so sorry to hear of your troubles with Morgan. You’ve gotten some great suggestions in the comment (including the vet check and the behaviorist), and I’m not sure I have anything to add on that front. However, I wanted to add my voice to the chorus of support here – you know that I made a very difficult decision to rehome one of my dogs due to fighting and aggression. It was one of the most difficult decisions I ever made, but I’m confident now that it was the right one. Wherever this journey takes you – whether it’s chemistry, working with a behaviorist or something more – know that I (and everyone else) has your back. I was overwhelmed with the support I received during that time. I have no doubt that you will make whatever decision is best for you and your pack.
hello bunny its dennis the vizsla dog hay after i had that insident with the skarry parakeet wot pushd me over the edj and i wuz starting to bekum dog reaktiv and stamp my feet and bark at peepul or dogs wot skayrd me mama ended up tayking me to a behayvyorist in the mithikal sitty of sandy eggo and he put me on sum verry nice treets wot seem to hav pilz in them wun beeing reconcile and the other wun beeing al … alpraz … umm wel wen peepul tayk it it is calld xanax ennyway they eventchooaly helpd me stop beeing so aynkshus that i cudnt lern ennything and they let mama trayn be bak down to the poynt ware i am almost reddy to go bak to dog sports like adjlity it has ben a long prosess but i am shoor yoo can do sumthing similar for morgan!!! mama has also gotten menny viddyos from tawzer dog went hey hav there haff price sayls she sez they hav ben verry helpful!!! ennyway i no yoo luv morgan verry mutch and wil do evrything yoo can to help her!!! ok bye
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